“The Author shall receive a 60% net royalty on all sales of printed copies of the Work that the Publisher receives. The net royalty for each book sold is after printing costs. YouWriteOn will set the retail price. Author royalties are not paid on copies of the book bought by the Authors themselves.”So, the authors won’t earn any royalties on copies they buy for themselves. That wouldn’t be too bad if they got a nice big discount on those copies: but the contract makes no provision for any author discounts at all, despite such discounts being a standard requirement in most publishing contracts.
This probably won’t concern the writers who only want to sell the odd copy to friends and family members: they can just direct everyone to YouWriteOn’s website, where they can order the books for themselves.
The people who should be most worried are the writers who want to sell more than just a handful of their books, and especially those who want to sell them through bookshops—which is where the majority of all books sold are sold.
When those writers make their sales visits to bookshops, they’ll need to have copies of their books on hand to show to the buyers. If the buyers want to buy copies there and then, the writer will have to supply them with those full-price, undiscounted, royalty-free books—but the bookshops will demand a discount, which means that the writers will lose money on every single copy that they sell.
They could ask the buyers to order the books direct from the wholesalers (Waterstones will only order self-published titles from Gardners, others may vary): but there’s a problem there, too. While it’s sometimes possible to get smaller bookshops to accept smaller discounts they’re rarely able to take anything below 40% off the retail price, while Waterstones usually requires a minimum discount of 57.5%. And there just isn’t that much money left in the pot after those nebulous “printing costs”, and the writers’ 60% royalties, have been paid.
Which leaves online sales. But again, online booksellers demand discounts, and where is that going to come from? Once you take away those “printing costs”, the writers’ 60%, and YouWriteOn’s 40%, there’s not enough left to cover the book sellers’ discounts. Not even if YouWriteOn gives up all of its 40% share.
Which means that these books are only really going to sell through YouWriteOn’s own website. And the last time I heard, that wasn’t very high up on the list of places that most readers go to when they’re looking for a good read.
13 comments:
Thank you for that, Jane. It certainly confirms the advice that one should always read the small print. But then again, when the full facts aren't there (such as those nebulous 'printing costs') how is the writer to begin to make an informed choice?
Despite my best efforts, there remain at least two members of my writing group who plan to take up this 'free publishing offer', which in my opinion is a far inferior route to self-publishing than, say, Lulu.com. Their reason is the suggestion that their work will be reviewed by leading agents and publishing houses. I guess it's their choice, but I agree with Sally - how can anyone make a reasoned decision without the full facts (e.g. printing costs, retail price)?
more words to the wise....thanks!
Paul wrote, "Their reason is the suggestion that their work will be reviewed by leading agents and publishing houses."
Paul, what ever makes them think that publishing with YWO is going to make this happen?
I'd be grateful if you would direct them here: tell them that I've asked that question, and ask them to explain it to me. Because for the life of me, I don't understand that particular one.
As for Lulu or Lightning Source offering a better alternative, I think you're right. I'll be putting up a post tomorrow which analyses the possible returns from sales between these two options--although there's far more to it than potential income, as I hope I've made clear in my posts here.
By the way, if anyone would like to know what some of the bigger publishers think of this, just have a look at Sally Zigmond's blog. Scott Pack, who used to run Waterstones and now is publisher at The Friday Project (which is an imprint of HarperCollins, I think), has commented there about YouWritOn's publishing scheme. He makes it quite clear that he has a pretty low opinion of the whole affair.
I think the dream that leading agents and publishing houses will read these books is wishful thinking based on nothing more than the fact that the 10 'best' opening chapters posted on the YouWriteOn website (judged best, by the way, by other YouWriteOn writers) might (and I repeat, might) be read by a small handful of 'experts.' And reading and liking is a very long way from acceptance. I believe, a couple have already been bought by traditional publishers but I suspect these might well have been picked up anyway had they been found in a publisher's slush-pile.
There is no evidence whatsoever that books published by this scheme will be read by anyone, let alone agents and publishers. Besides, as far as I am aware, no editor or agent will look at a book published in this way unless, that book becomes a huge popular success.
Sally, you're right on all counts: subscribing to this scheme has nothing to do with appearing in YWO's top ten, so it's not going to get the writers any closer to that particular holy grail; and I've been told by a few people now that the two successes that YWO has claimed for its writers happened independently of YWO, and not because of it.
And Lynn Price, over at Behler Publishing, has blogged about how unlikely it is for a self-published book to convert to mainstream publishing: there's a link to it here, somewhere. If anyone's interested you should be able to find it if you click on my "self-publishing" label.
Jane
Well done for spotting the lack of author discount. I published YWO's response to my own questions here http://debutnovelist.wordpress.com/2008/10/04/the-story-from-ywo/
but even less reason to get involved now!
AliB
YouWriteOn.com Publishing Contract
1. Parties
This is a Publishing Agreement between YouWriteOn.com Ltd (“Publisher”) and the author (“Author”) whose details are signified at the end of this Agreement. This agreement relates to the print version only of the book listed at the end of this Agreement, herein referred to as "Work."
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(d) that the Work is free of any claims of libel, copyright or trademark infringement, plagiarism, misrepresentation of facts, or breach of privacy
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(f) the Author warrants that the work is not defamatory or obscene, or illegal in nature, and warrants and represents that the Work and material contained within it will not be injurious to any user, reader or other person. The Publisher reserves the right not to publish books submitted to us through free publishing, and to cancel publication if we believe that any of the above terms have been infringed.
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The Author agrees that the Publisher has the full right to use book excerpts, quotes, reviews, cover images, and other book related material for promotional purposes. There is no agreement on the part of the Publisher however to engage in or fund promotion or marketing expressed or implied by this contract for free publishing.
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The Publisher will endeavor to have all books prepared for publication by Christmas 2008 if the Author is one of the accepted 5,000 authors who email us by 31st October 2008. The Author accepts that this is an aim and not a guarantee as unpredictable events may affect the timeline.
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The Author shall receive a 60% net royalty on all sales of printed copies of the Work that the Publisher receives. The net royalty for each book sold is after printing costs. YouWriteOn will set the retail price. Author royalties are not paid on copies of the book bought by the Authors themselves.
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Thank you, Debut Novelist for your link. It was fascinating and revealing. I read with open-jawed incredulity, not so much the YWO man's obfuscation (which I would expect) but David Milnes' subsequent self-justification. He is the author of a 'The Ghost of Neil Diamond' published through YWO and he sings its praises. Well, he would, wouldn't he? No. What shocked me is that he paid £400. I repeat, paid £400. And seems to be happy with that.
I have no doubt he has talent and the book is worth reading but his post shows just how little he understands about Amazon figures, publicity and book-selling. I found one section particularly telling. Two agents asked him to make changes in his manuscript. He didn't and they 'dropped' him (as any sensible agent would, incidentally and I would say it was more a case of him 'dropping' them. If I'd have been him I would have done what they asked.) He admits, in hindsight, that they were right. Had he not refused, he might have got a good deal with a traditional publisher (advance and royalties) who would have done a far far better job at getting his book into bookshops and generated more sales so he would have got both an advance and decent royalties. As Jane has explained, they would have sent review copies to dozens of magazines, newspapers, and many book blogs, not just one. He would probably have got good foreign rights, too. Do YWO go to Frankfurt or the London Book Fair, for example?
He is right when he says that outfits like YWO are not the nasty Vanity publishers of yore but they are, contrary to what he says, the softer re-incarnation for the digital age. They still use weasel words to attract would-be authors, they still perpetuate the myth that everyone 'deserves' to be published regardless of talent. He could have self-published through Lulu and others like it without shelling out £400. And, if he'd been patient and more willing to work alongside an agent, he could have got a good traditional deal.
Sad.
Submitting to agents and publishers isn't easy but it isn't a mug's game, as he claims. Publishing with the likes of YWO probably is.
Sometimes I feel we here are banging our heads against a brick wall.
The truth is writers with talent and the right manuscript will be published. Maybe not immediately and not with their current manuscript. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. If it's easy, it smells of rat.
That 57.5% figure for Waterstone's almost certainly includes the Gardners cut. Gardners probably give Waterstone's about 48% discount or something like that.
Thanks for that, Scott. I did wonder.
I've got a rather interesting string of blog posts coming up next week which will discuss what it's like working for Waterstones. I'd love your comments on them if you find your way back here.
I'm a fan of Youwriteon.com.
Why? because I found like minded people who were writers like me. We read each others work and gave feedback. I've made some very good writing friends through the website. I also have an interesting folder of feedback which has helped my writing to improve when I didn't have anyone outside of my family and friends who was willing to read my work and give me feedback.
Two months ago, Youwriteon.com email me saying they would publish my novel... Now as much as I would like to see my work in print I didn't take up their kind offer... And why not you might ask if I think so highly of this wonderful site.
My answer is it is a writing tool. I use the site as somewhere I can post the first 10k words of a new book idea and see what sort of feedback I get. It's not a dream maker if you want an agent or publishers to say YES to your dreams of getting your life's work in print then go to a mainstream publishers or agent.
But if you just want someone to read your work and tell you what they think go on Youwriteon and read someone else work, leave a fair and honest comment and wait until someone reads yours in return.
But remember to wear a thick skin because some people's comments can be mean and nasty, but so can out and out rejection it's all part and parcel of learning to become a writer.
Oh and bye the way, two of my writing friends have taken up the offer because (in their words) they see it as the only way of getting their work in print for their family and friends to be able to buy it. When I ask why didn't their hang on and try a few more agents and publishers. They didn't see why they should wait when they could have their work in print by Christmas.
Some people are just happy, while others want to be real writer.
Best wishes,
Annie
"Oh and bye the way, two of my writing friends have taken up the offer because (in their words) they see it as the only way of getting their work in print for their family and friends to be able to buy it. When I ask why didn't their hang on and try a few more agents and publishers. They didn't see why they should wait when they could have their work in print by Christmas."
But why didn't they go direct to Lightning Source, or Lulu? Then they could have had books in their hand within a week or two, and not spent as much money in the process.
Send them over here, Annie, and tell them to email me if they don't understand anything.
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