tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post8343690159780210894..comments2023-06-12T17:08:36.320+01:00Comments on How Publishing <i>Really</i> Works: Anti-Plagiarism Day: An UpdateJane Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comBlogger132125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-28899005513822109832010-02-02T12:30:32.514+00:002010-02-02T12:30:32.514+00:00Douglas and William: you insist you're two sep...Douglas and William: you insist you're two separate people and yet you both post from the same IP address, you both refer to SiteMeter as "Sitemaster" and you both suggest I "go back and check my machine" when referring to my findings. You've done so here, and on Doug Cheadle's blog. <br /><br />Yes, I get that you don't think you plagiarised anyone's work but just because that's your opinion doesn't mean that it's true. There are several people who specialise in IP law who disagree with you very strongly about that. I've taken advice on this, and I suggest you do the same: and while you're at it, try to come up with some original ideas of your own instead of relying on other writers to do that for you. There's a good chap.<br /><br />I also get that you think I've discredited you but it wasn't me who did that--it was you. You discredited yourself when you plagiarised the work of other writers; you discredited yourself again when you refused to accept responsibility for your plagiarism, and denied having done so; you discredited yourself further when you made libellous and vindictinve posts on your own blog and elsewhere about people who had placed you in a position of trust; and you continue to discredit yourself with every comment you make trying to defend those actions. <br /><br />Your obsessive and lengthy posts only make me concerned for your emotional well-being: they do nothing to convince me that you have even a shred of integrity or honour with regard to this matter. Your habit of making several similar or identical comments to several of my blog posts at once is spamming, and could result in your ISP denying you service; and I find it bizarre that you sent me a nearly-contrite and somewhat-apologetic email on Sunday evening, asking how we could end this whole sorry episode, but then within ten minutes made further lengthy and insulting comments about me on blogs elsewhere. <br /><br />Douglas, I'm not going to approve any more of your comments here unless you move on from this. You keep on commenting, but you say nothing new and frankly, we're all bored now. If you have anything interesting to say, or anything new and pertinent then by all means say it. But if you only want to carry on complaining about how hard done-by you are, and how we've all got things wrong, then I will not approve a single one of your comments. And yes, that goes for you too, "William".Jane Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-16268233655406957772010-02-01T18:56:27.896+00:002010-02-01T18:56:27.896+00:00Jane, you do not wish me the very best. If you did...Jane, you do not wish me the very best. If you did you would not have so maligned me and continue to malign me. You know all this Ip address is just smoke.<br /><br />Whoever this William Shears is, he is not me and we do not correspond and we do not share the same computer, Ip address or country. That you insist on trying to say we are is just to undermine anything he or I have to say. That is not the act of someone who wishes me the very best.<br /><br />That you are not entering in to a rehash of all of this again is fine... a bit surprising for someone who claims to have sued a national newspaper for theft of her work/ideas.<br /><br />But do not kid yourself that we do not see through what is going on here.Douglas Brutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12625886640338360592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-65606564386804547022010-02-01T14:36:49.819+00:002010-02-01T14:36:49.819+00:00Jane, you have obviously not checked your Sitemast...Jane, you have obviously not checked your Sitemaster findings; or perhaps you have, but won't publicly admit the truth. The only thing connecting myself to Douglas is the fact that we both have the same internet provider, hardly much of a coincidence as they are one of, if not the largest internet providers in the country. If I'm a figment of Douglas's imagination, then perhaps you could confirm that to Her Majesty's Inspectors of Taxes.William Shearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15180648601657480757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-85617746235706665042010-02-01T12:55:24.063+00:002010-02-01T12:55:24.063+00:00Last night I posted the following comment over at ...Last night I posted the following comment over at <a href="http://www.jonathanpinnock.com/2009/08/men-behaving-badly/" rel="nofollow">Jonathan Pinnock's blog</a> and at <a href="http://nikperring.blogspot.com/2010/01/this-blog-post-has-probably-been-long.html" rel="nofollow">Nik Perring's blog,</a> where The Douglas And William Show has also been running. Forgive me for repeating myself here.<br /><br />According to Sitemeter, the comments that Douglas Bruton and William Shears left on my blog both came from someone using a BTCentralPlus internet connection, who was based in Edinburgh, using one computer with the IP address 86.131.241.<br /><br />After I pointed this out on my blog Shears commented again, insisting he was not the same person as Bruton. This comment also came from a BTCentralPlus account, but this time one based in Brentwood, Essex, with a different IP address: 217.44.136. At first I thought that I'd made a mistake and was just about to apologise when Bruton commented on my blog again--this time from the same IP address in Brentwood, Essex, which Shears had commented from.<br /><br />I live in Sheffield, and when I visit my own blog from my own desktop computer, Sitemeter reflects that. But when I'm out and about and use my laptop and mobile connection, the IP address is naturally different--and my given location changes depending on which wireless connection I'm using. According to Sitemeter I've posted from Manchester, London, and Glasgow when I know I've just been down the road.<br /><br />You can draw your own conclusions. But it might help you to do that if you know a few more details.<br /><br />It's likely that Douglas has posted blog comments under pseudonyms before, in order to support himself. I remember particularly a blogger called Amber who, like William Shears, had no previous internet identity when she first appeared and who, like William, commented only on blog posts where Douglas had been criticised. Her posts were always supportive of Douglas and critical the people who were critical of him. Like William, Amber shared an IP address with Douglas and seemed to travel frequently between Edinbugh and Brentwood.<br /><br />As for the rest of Bruton's increasingly libellous comments: I'm not even going to address them. He won't allow me to comment on his blog, he twists my words, and he misrepresents me at every turn. He's a talented writer and I wish him the very best: but I don't see the point in rehashing this very old, and very unsavoury story any more, particularly when it's clear to everyone but Douglas, William (and probably Amber too) who is in the wrong here.Jane Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-48270742806064570662010-01-31T17:59:25.864+00:002010-01-31T17:59:25.864+00:00Check your sitemaster again Jane. Douglas has not ...Check your sitemaster again Jane. Douglas has not sent any comments from my computer, nor I from his.William Shearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15180648601657480757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-91066208573107291992010-01-30T18:08:16.252+00:002010-01-30T18:08:16.252+00:00Douglas didn't steel a story from Vanessa, he ...Douglas didn't steel a story from Vanessa, he created a story from a character she had remarked on; not a character that she had herself created merely observed, (her words). Douglas then gave Vanessa his finished story for her approval, she wasn't upset at this point that he had written the story, but decided not to read it, so as not to influence her unfinished work. I'm not a writer but I assume you all write for the approval of others and not for yourself; if it was just for yourself, you would keep it to yourself, surely? Having spent presumably blood sweat and tears creating the story, Douglas would have obviously been eager to seek approval of his work; isn't that the case for all of you writers, but he was expected to wait until Vanessa got her arse in gear, (or not as maybe the case); he would probably still be waiting now and his story would have been laying around unread and unapreciated, and for what; a totally different story by a different writer which has yet to surface. She didn't object to him writting it, she just objected to him publishing it, but that's why writers write,so people can read.William Shearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15180648601657480757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-62977266831100144552010-01-30T11:54:05.431+00:002010-01-30T11:54:05.431+00:00Now you truely have exposed yourself; at least to ...Now you truely have exposed yourself; at least to me, as a liar! Douglas and I do not share the same computer, or even live in the same country. I'd sort out that'sitemeter' of yours; if it even exists that is!William Shearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15180648601657480757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-41616868163896033562010-01-30T10:47:52.499+00:002010-01-30T10:47:52.499+00:00This is another blatant attempt to discredit me an...This is another blatant attempt to discredit me and another blatant lie. I am not William Shears. I do not know who he is. He is not anyone in my house. I have been the only person home for more than 48 hours, so I know William Shears has not come from my home.<br /><br />Jane's IP address stuff is nonsense. This smacks of desperation that you would lie in this way.<br /><br />Read my recent blog post on why Jane has reason to not like me, despite her public pretence to being fair.<br /><br />Ideas are not copyright, is what you have said on your blog. You say they are fair game, in fact. All that cannnot be taken is the particular arrangement of the words. That's what you have said.<br /><br />Doug Cheadle's theft of my stories has been available for people to read for more than a week and a half. 250 visits have been recorded. Not one comment except mine and this William Shears. Wake up Jane. Wake up everyone and read my b log to see why Jane has every reason to want to slap me.<br /><br />DDouglas Brutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12625886640338360592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-14821443034658156792010-01-30T10:38:36.484+00:002010-01-30T10:38:36.484+00:00Thanks to Sitemeter and a few other nice little to...Thanks to Sitemeter and a few other nice little tools I have at my disposal I can confirm that Douglas Bruton's comment came from this IP address: 86.131.241, from a BTCentralPlus account.<br /><br />That's the same IP address and BT account which William Shears used to place his comment. They're definitely sharing a computer: what's the betting they're sharing a body and a brain, too? Ha!<br /><br />Douglas, I understand you don't agree that your use of Tania Hershman's and Paul Auster's stories was plagiarism: but you've got it wrong, you really have. You've seriously misunderstood the rules. If you don't agree with me, you could speak to an intellectual property lawyer and ask their opinion. If it helps, I've already shown the stories concerned to THREE IP lawyers, and they have all told me that what you did is plagiarism, without a doubt. <br /><br />You didn't copy the work word-for-word, but you DID copy their expression of specific ideas and yes, this is plagiarism. You are doing yourself no favours by repeatedly insisting that it is not. <br /><br />And no, I'm not going to read your blog, because whenver I've done so and tried to comment, you've refused to approve my comments. It's a waste of my time: I don't see the point in doing it. <br /><br />(I'll repeat this message in the two other places where Bruton/Shears has commented, so that everyone can keep up to date. Apologies for the duplication.)Jane Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-6213344339945192792010-01-30T09:50:41.725+00:002010-01-30T09:50:41.725+00:00Please do read Doug Cheadle (wonder who that could...Please do read Doug Cheadle (wonder who that could be?) - even if there is a blatant infringement of my copyright in what is done on his blog post.<br /><br />And, as Jane herself says, do the research and double check the facts rather than believe what others say. And read my own blog, especially the most recent post. <br /><br />I have never had anything to hide. This is not plagiarism.<br /><br />DDouglas Brutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12625886640338360592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-28733896036171527492010-01-29T20:45:58.173+00:002010-01-29T20:45:58.173+00:00Has anyone here bothered to read what Douglas has ...Has anyone here bothered to read what Douglas has to say on this matter. It's so easy to take a side when only presented with one side of the story. Vanessa says something vaguely to Douglas, he then writes a story using this vague charachter. His story is written before Vanessa has a chance to, the finished story probably bares no similaritys to what she would have written; other than a vague charachter she mentioned to him, but she accuses him of ripping her off! Get real Vanessa; smacks of envy!William Shearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15180648601657480757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-84041932095473461562010-01-20T11:02:15.185+00:002010-01-20T11:02:15.185+00:00I thought this whole story had died down. And then...I thought this whole story had died down. And then I read Douglas Bruton's potentially libellous post in which he repeatedly calls his old friend mad. That's a foul thing to do to anyone. I hope he is ashamed of himself.<br /><br />So long as his offending stories remain away from the public view, he's going to be able to insist he's done nothing wrong. And I've had enough.<br /><br />So if anyone wants to read them, I've posted them on my new blog. Click on my name to find it, and them. Happy reading.Doug Cheadlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11650198497626995503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-50083687487974419642010-01-19T15:45:38.515+00:002010-01-19T15:45:38.515+00:00Wow. What a read. I've been re-directed here f...Wow. What a read. I've been re-directed here from Nik's blog. This has been better than a novel - saying that, it's the longest piece of prose I've read yet this year! My sympathies to Venessa, Tania and Paul...and all writers who find themselves plagiarized.slippingthroughtheworldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06131941977247826324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-76421605170108914202009-10-10T08:05:20.944+01:002009-10-10T08:05:20.944+01:00Hey-o. New here. Just wanted to say that what JANE...Hey-o. New here. Just wanted to say that what JANE SMITH said about the "POOR MAN'S COPYRIGHT" is 100% correct. Mailing yourself a manuscript achieves nothing. <br /><br />The idea, once set to a medium is already copyright protected. But in order to have any legal standing, you must first register your copyright with the Copyright Office (or whatever it's called if you're not in the US). <br /><br />Also, to successfully sue (for anything other than a cease-and-desist) you have to be able to show damages. You have to be able to show that the Offending Party took money out of your wallet. <br /><br />Copyright lawsuits, judges hate them with a passion. <br /><br />Just my 2¢.Thom Brannanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01448372948030121434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-80186802412593893302009-10-02T04:27:16.603+01:002009-10-02T04:27:16.603+01:00I've just read all of this (took a long time!)...I've just read all of this (took a long time!) and I have to say I agree with the very first post by Charlie. <br /><br />I'm curious which Paul Auster work was the one mentioned as plagiarised. I imagine that could have turned into an expensive legal problem, easily capable of bankrupting a small magazine, by the way. I have a vague sense of deja-vu (ironically?) about Auster and plagiarism allegations - don't know why.<br /><br />There is no copyright on ideas, nor should there be, nor could there be. <i>Die gedanken sind frei.</i> But that is a different matter to a squalid ripoff between two erstwhile friends who are both writers. If somebody who's not a writer said to me why not write a story about a piano tuner in Ballygobackwards, I would feel quite in order to do so and show them the result. However, if another writer said they were going to write such a thing, I would have to be a right numpty to take it on myself to write the same thing. It feels fraudulent.<br /><br />Shakespeare reused old stories as the plots for his plays and that's fine. It wouldn't have been so fine to use a then contemporary writer's storylines though. It's almost the norm for books to be based on other "templates", if only as obscure as Homer's Odyssey for Joyce's Ulysses. However, courts have drawn the line at such things as a sequel to Gone With The Wind from the maid's point of view, called "The Wind Done Gone". In a more recent case J. D. Salinger blocked the publication of a lightly veiled "sequel" by some other writer to Catcher In The Rye, in which Holden Caulfield is portrayed aged 60.<br /><br />I attended a talk by Bernard Cornwell in which he stated that all a writer had to do find commercial success, which was all he wanted, was to take a successful template, change all the names and settings somewhat and send it out and that that's what he had done by transforming the Hornblower novels into his Sharpe series.<br /><br />His other "big idea" (from an agent) was that publishers wanted a series, and the example he gave was that if you wrote a book "How to look after your pet dog", one copy could be sold to every pet shop and that was the end of you. So - again templating - his suggestion was write a book called "How to look after your Alsation", then an endless series of almost identical ones called "How to look after your Labradoodle" (etc.)<br /><br />So back to where I started, I'm with Charlie and not Cornwell.<br /><br />Sympathies to Vanessa. <br /><br />By the way I read hundreds of stories every year for a competition and I still haven't a clue what to write when faced with a blank page and haven't written anything for ages. It would never enter my head to bother what anyone else wanted to write. As for making money out of writing - there's more to be made washing windscreens at the traffic lights, mostly.Ossianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12095236313068093836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-49046342087500617442009-08-12T23:35:33.598+01:002009-08-12T23:35:33.598+01:00Sue, I can't help agreeing. I too began writin...Sue, I can't help agreeing. I too began writing long before the advent of the literary internet, and in a culture where people WERE very wary of showing their ideas/writing to any but close trusted personal friends and the very well-known and professional, a custom I must say I've tried to keep up. Even so, as I say, I have had ideas plagiarized. I know it seems very wet blanket, but I can't help thinking that this current situation endorses that practice. My policy on the internet is never to show anything that isn't already published (as well as never to say anything I wouldn't say in a crowded lecture hall or a national newspaper!)Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-67975734484628289332009-08-12T20:22:05.200+01:002009-08-12T20:22:05.200+01:00There was a time, before the age of universal inte...There was a time, before the age of universal internet links, when no writer would talk about unpublished work to anyone she/he didn't know to be a serious colleague. My first literary mentor, who was younger than me but with an older head, warned me against talking about my ideas to anyone other than agents, publishers and editors. That wasn't so very long ago. It was sound advice.<br /><br />Now, things have changed. Because we can invite unknown people from all over the world into the safety of our homes and private offices, we feel safe, just because we ARE at home. We blog. We tell countless total strangers all sorts of things about ourselves and our families which would have made our mothers faint with embarrassment. It isn't very rational, is it? In fact, it's just like leaving your door unlocked at night (OK I do that sometimes, too, but I live in rural France) and hoping the people who visit you at night aren't burglars. Do you leave your filing cabinet with all your financial documents unlocked in your front garden, for anyone to see? <br /><br />I'm not saying that this couldn't happen - the plagiarism, I mean - outside the internet community. That would clearly be untrue. I believe it happens far more often than we think, and in places we wouldn't expect it to happen.<br /><br />I write - I was a Cadenza prize-winner who couldn't be published there because Zoe had to close the magazine down (the story will be antholgized elsewhere, but that's not the point). I edit - and how can we editors know if a story is plagiarized or not? Names and titles change. We have to build trust between ourselves and our writers. Cases such as this destroy that trust and undermine the whole substructure of the writer's world. Surely that needs no further explanation or comment.<br /><br />I'm a member of a worldwide writing community and I post work there. There are fantastic, writers there -many well-known -and terrific dynamism. My work has been published internationally as a direct result of my membership. But I,too, leave myself open sometimes, simply by posting my work. But at the same time, I'm aware of those who watch. Those who try to get too close to my work - is anyone else REALLY that interested in my ideas and writing for their own sake? Probably not.<br /><br />As someone said, Douglas Bruton hasn't been found guilty in a court of law; but the literary world might learn a valid lesson from this Edinburgh teacher, the sort of lesson we might give our own surfing children - we have to learn to use the internet in a way which protects us as people and as writers. <br /><br />Sue HaighUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06266322732296407765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-33808785394090156182009-08-10T18:02:14.439+01:002009-08-10T18:02:14.439+01:008. I’m not literary enough to understand the argum...8. I’m not literary enough to understand the arguments surrounding the devices and style-motifs which Mr B is alleged to have copied, but it seems to me that someone can be inspired by a piece of work and produce an entirely new piece of work in the same style, or a new piece of work using the same concepts, and the resulting works are unrecognizably different from the inspiring work; that is acceptable, but when someone does both, and the similarities are so remarkable that people notice, then that is plagiarism. The question is, has this happened with Mr B’s work? Well, we won’t know because if there is to be litigation, then perhaps that is for the courts to decide and not us. <br /><br />9. The remarks regarding Greyling Bay were appropriate because Mr B did kick up an enormous fuss over the aspersions cast upon his character “Darius” in one exquisite piece. It was not as if the writer had taken Darius and written a piece directly using Darius as the protagonist. No. Instead the writer cleverly picked up on the creepiness that many felt that Darius projected, and implied wrong-doing. This was part of the joy of Greyling Bay, a synergistic growth of characters and situations, but Mr B was so very precious about Darius that he kicked up a stink about someone daring to imply that Darius was unsavoury and so outraged at one might be forgiven for thinking Mr B himself had been accused of impropriety. It is appropriate to bring the tantrums up in this plagiarism debate because Mr B’s words in defense of his own alleged appropriation of ideas and characters is undermined by his behaviour when his own creation was, in his eyes, abused in what is an exciting experimental piece of collaborative, let me emphasize, collaborative on-line fiction. <br /><br />10. The quote from part of his objections was indeed cherry-picked from all the sour grapes, and quoted out of context, despite what Ros says. (I don’t know what cherry-pick means to you, Ros, but to me it means picking out something which supports your argument and ignoring anything which does not, which is exactly what you did there.) Go see for yourselves if you don’t believe me. http://greylingbay.blogspot.com/2009/04/outsider.html<br /><br />11. As for there being a conspiracy of wasps, well, I’ve been abducted by aliens and I now wear a tin foil hat in my ivory tower (which cunningly disguises a homing beacon for said aliens) so that my thoughts are shielded from those aliens, just in case...<br /><br />MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-46590703493642327622009-08-10T18:00:37.630+01:002009-08-10T18:00:37.630+01:006. Plagiarism can be unconscious, or even, not rea...6. Plagiarism can be unconscious, or even, not really plagiarism. eg I wrote a short story (which needed more development, TBH) which it turns out was similar in setting and basic premise to a novel which I have not read, but may (and only may) have been described to me some months previously, and then was described to me again after I had written the story and was telling someone about it, which is how I know about that novel. If I had been fortunate enough to have the short story published, people could have said that I had plagiarized the novel, or at least, been unduly influenced by it, but I had not (and still have not) read said novel. Now I feel hamstrung because I can’t work on this short story for fear of being thought of as a plagiarizer.<br /><br />7. What appears to be plagiarism can be coincidence. A few years back, I was playing silly games on a particular forum and was “punished” for my sins. This meant me writing a daily piece and resulted in a 20K short story, which I later realized, has serious potential as a novel. Unfortunately I have been beaten to the idea by someone else who has written an award-winning novel on the same theme (which I have not read). Now, I have no idea how close my short story and the novel are, but there are bound to be some similarities because we are writing about the same sort of thing, and there is the similarity of concept. If I do expand the story into a novel, I might be accused of copying the published novel, “Jumping on the bandwagon” as it were, and yet my short story came about entirely independently of the published novel. It’s a coincidence. When I was writing it, I never thought that it was a publishable concept, it was just for fun to entertain some friends. Once I realized it has potential, I removed it from the internet, partly because though work is copyright, ideas are not, and I didn’t want my work inspiring anyone else to flood the market as it were. (I really must get down to finishing that novel… so much to write, and stuffed for time.)<br /><br />MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-74023479023130889182009-08-10T17:58:18.935+01:002009-08-10T17:58:18.935+01:00Ooooh cripes, just got back from holiday to find a...Ooooh cripes, just got back from holiday to find a right old barney going on here. I’d like to make some points, if I may.<br /><br />1. Since there has been no court case Douglas Bruton’s alleged plagiarism and concept theft is just that; alleged. And anyone who has read the offending works can have an opinion, but it is that, just an opinion. That said, there are a number of posters on here whose opinion is an informed opinion. <br /><br />2. Would any of you now like to share your unpublished work and ideas with Mr Bruton? I know I would not. I will retreat to my ivory tower and share nothing more online except with a few close and trusted friends.<br /><br />3. Vanessa Gebbie seems to be on internet-trial for not “outing” Mr B earlier. Ros /Jim has found her guilty by some perverse logic (or lack of it, should I say.). That seems very unfair, but then, when you’ve made up your mind, your brain stops working. Let me illustrate why Ros is wrong. A number of years ago I was at a friend’s, and my bag containing my wallet was in another room. My friend suddenly got up and brought it into the room we were sitting in, explaining that her daughter’s boyfriend was a drug addict and frequently stole stuff from her. Imagine yourself in the same situation. How many thefts do you have to experience before you believe that a friend (or even a family member) is stealing from you and others under your roof? Suppose a mutual acquaintance remarks that they have had items and money stolen from them and suspect the boyfriend, what do you do? What would have happened if my money and credit cards had been stolen and used by said boyfriend? I would then have had to go to the police, surely? But what about friendship? Such a dilemma. I dare say Vanessa Gebbie found herself in the same situation. Now before Ros/Jim whines about me being part of some conspiracy, let me tell you I don’t know Gebbie at all.<br /><br />4. The rape analogy is entirely appropriate because the person using that analogy used it to illustrate the perception of people “asking for it” rather than suggesting in any way that theft of ideas is comparable to rape. To imply otherwise is either to have missed the point or to be misleading people deliberately.<br /><br />5. It is noteworthy that some have mentioned that having their work plagiarized left them feeling as if they had been raped. This is, perhaps, somewhat hyperbolical, but does illustrate the intense pain and sense of violation people can feel if their work has been plagiarized.<br /><br /><br />MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-12393256399469425612009-08-10T01:59:11.450+01:002009-08-10T01:59:11.450+01:00Honestly, most human interactions of this nature w...Honestly, most human interactions of this nature work that way. The offender gets a warning the first time he's caught. When it's later discovered he ignored the warning and went right on doing whatever he was warned about anyway, he gets expelled, or fired, or whatever the case may be.<br /><br />There is nothing unusual about the way events played out here. It wasn't based on whether someone's work was more valuable than someone else's, it was based on the fact that he continued doing it and got caught. He could have chosen to stop the first time he got caught. No one held a gun to his head and made him plagiarize anything. Pretending there was favoritism at work is nothing more than an effort to divert attention from the fact that he's a repeat offender. He made the choice himself. He doesn't need you to hold his hand and make everything better for him.<br /><br />It is also not unusual for the one caught doing something wrong to make out it's someone else's fault, that he's being punished for nothing. It's much easier to play the victim than it is to own up to the wrong you've done. This is also human nature. Blaming the victim is nearly as old as mankind.<br /><br />I also refuse to believe that someone in the teaching field would be unaware of what plagiarism is and that it's wrong. He would have to watch for that among his own students.Pepper Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00088936125225559789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-43405136603927077892009-08-09T13:36:45.172+01:002009-08-09T13:36:45.172+01:00Oh Ros! No, no no. It's pretty clear you'v...Oh Ros! No, no no. It's pretty clear you've made your mind up and you're not for changing it, and as I said before you're entitled to think what you will, but I must say, personally, that this has nothing to do with who's friends with who (you might not be aware that I considered Douglas a friend) and everything to do with right and wrong. And I know you don't know me, and that you're simply making assumptions, but if I thought Vanessa, or any of my friends, considered plagiarism an ok thing to do then I wouldn't be friends with them. And the order in which things were taken from people has nothing to do with anything; I think the reaction would have been the same. Honestly, Ros, you've got this wrong.<br /><br />NikNik Perringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07426321804560400335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-90003978961137750522009-08-09T09:50:43.431+01:002009-08-09T09:50:43.431+01:00Ros, you're seeing conspiracies where they sim...Ros, you're seeing conspiracies where they simply don't exist, and you're determined to make Vanessa Gebbie the bad guy here when she simply isn't. Neither of these two points help with your credibility but then you think that you're posting without any comeback, aren't you? There's no link here to your blog, and no indication of who you really are. <br /><br />What you might not be aware is that each time you visit my blog I can see your IP address--the details of the specific computer you're posting your messages from. I've been keeping track of the IP addresses relating to this thread for some time. And what is very interesting is how similar your IP address is to Jim's.Jane Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-20244476599670105862009-08-09T09:27:18.170+01:002009-08-09T09:27:18.170+01:00Another one of Vanessa's friends steps in to d...Another one of Vanessa's friends steps in to defend her. This is looking more and more like a conspiracy to me.<br /><br />Nik said, "He was taken to task about it. And then he did it again. And again. To friends. Had he stopped there and then, at the time, there'd have been no need for all of this." <br /><br />But it was only when he allegedly plagiarised his friends that all this blew up. Why didn't anyone make a similar fuss when he plagiarised Paul Auster? And how do we know he plagiarised anyone at all? We have only Vanessa Gebbie's word for it, and Jane's of course, and they're both so determined to be right here that it's impossible for anyone to make a fair judgement about it at all. That Jane has deleted Jim's perfectly acceptable post is proff that she's got her own agenda here, and if Vanessa did think Douglas had plagiarised her she'd post the extracts, his and hers, somewhere for us all to make up our own minds. But she doesn't and I have to ask why that might be.Rosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-25412075009480318502009-08-07T15:39:06.205+01:002009-08-07T15:39:06.205+01:00Ros, of course you're free to think what you t...Ros, of course you're free to think what you think and believe whatever you choose, but I must say that this:<br /><br />"Vanessa DID feel it wasn't a terrible thing when DB plagiarised Paul Auster and only went berserk when she and Tania were affected by his alleged appalling behaviour."<br /><br />is simply not true.<br /><br />He was taken to task about it. And then he did it again. And again. To friends. Had he stopped there and then, at the time, there'd have been no need for all of this. But it was his refusal to see that what he did was wrong, and the fact that he continued to do it, that led to the situation as it is now. I'm sure a good number of the people involved with this would do things differently knowing what they know now, but at the time they couldn't have.<br /><br />Honestly, Ros, Vanessa isn't the baddie in this.<br /><br />NikNik Perringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07426321804560400335noreply@blogger.com