tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post1084847852558556903..comments2023-06-12T17:08:36.320+01:00Comments on How Publishing <i>Really</i> Works: Writers Should Know BetterJane Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-40852306443193030312009-04-24T23:50:00.000+01:002009-04-24T23:50:00.000+01:00Thank you, Ms. Smith...I wasn't expecting a respon...Thank you, Ms. Smith...I wasn't expecting a response because I figure you have quite a lot on your plate. However, I'm honored to receive one, AND I'd love (tears aside...LOL) another brutal swig of honesty on either post below! My user name is Penny Manning (the fearless newbie). I have two posts:<br /><br />1. Does this scene pique your interest? (l believe it was moved to Literary SYW)<br /><br />2. I want to join the wind and rain challenge! (History SYW)<br /><br />AW is Sweet! Critiquing other people's work really does help me see the errors in my writing.<br /><br />A few days ago, still reeling from a week of critique, I was on the couch, trying to decide whether to continuing writing in 1st person, present tense or try past tense. (Third person, past wasn't very appetizing--I love reading it but...) then in my head, gentle and clear, came a new title for my book: The Manningfield Diaries. Next came the idea to write the novel in diary form (that idea has since morphed into an Epistolary--is there even a difference?).<br /><br />Two days later I checked my AW responses. Lo, and Behold, Firedrake suggested I write the novel in diary form! The idea made me jump to my feet and say "Yes! Maybe that could work."<br /><br />Don't know how you feel about coincidence VS divine guidance, Ms. Smith, but I believe coincidences are spiritual nudges that say "Why don't you try this?"<br /> <br />In the days following, I discovered a wealth of books (and screenplays) written under the guise of an Epistolary or Diary form. IF I can work in my 5 POV characters (including the MC), Epistolary/Diary may be the start to finishing my book.<br /><br />Today, I've taken a break from mind-numbing Googling and have begun work on a sample chapter. Even with the prospect of an extensive rewrite, I'm excited and hopeful. Blessings to you, Ms. Smith, because I agree, AW is fabulous. PennyPennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01932859321223254374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-71742663613090532162009-04-24T20:40:00.000+01:002009-04-24T20:40:00.000+01:00Penny, sorry I took so long to respond--I missed y...Penny, sorry I took so long to respond--I missed your comment, and am embarrassed now.<br /><br />I'm glad you like AW: it's fab, isn't it? And so big that there's something there for just about everyone. I post there as Old Hack: tell me your user name and I'll have a look at your stuff there (and probably ruin everything!).<br /><br />Why does everyone hate first person so much? I don't know, because I don't. I love it. I find a perfectly-written third person, past tense voice a little tiresome, to be honest, and LOVE a well-written first person, present tense POV. The trouble is a good example of the form is relatively rare: it's a very difficult form to get right, so it's more vulnerable to criticism than the other POVs. Done well, though, it's immediate, compelling and wonderful.Jane Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-4267217364858614872009-04-15T20:13:00.000+01:002009-04-15T20:13:00.000+01:00Hello, Ms. Smith!
Since you said that this blog i...Hello, Ms. Smith!<br /><br />Since you said that this blog is your way of helping others. I thought it fair to let you know that I followed through on your suggestion to try Absolute Write. I have recently signed up and received some very illuminating feedback. I love it too! Finally in years of not receiving content-related feedback, I can see my errors. THANK YOU!<br /><br />Just to remind you...not everyone slams the door in the face of critical critique. You see, my submission didn't go over well, but I thanked each critiquer and acknowledged their suggestions as something I would look into or follow through on. Later, my harshest critic commended me for my manner of response. Then a few others gave me encouraging comments. So, I'm proud of myself for being one who can accept that everything I write isn't Earth-shattering. Hahaha. I know I have great potential and don't plan on giving up. I'll try harder and I'll succeed.<br /><br />By the way, why do the Publishing world and Readers hate First Person, Present/Past Tense so much? Again, my deep appreciation.Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01932859321223254374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-9240002190552868632009-04-11T00:54:00.000+01:002009-04-11T00:54:00.000+01:00I bow my head to you with the kindness you gave th...I bow my head to you with the kindness you gave this person. Like ytou said you should have known better but you still gave it a shot..I appreciate the nicieties you showed this man..he was quite the defensive one huh? I remeber when i first started writing i was a bit stubborn but i later realized that constructive criticism is needed to build the potential in the story written..Again kudos to you!!!!<BR/><BR/>RobinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-31659458525210739142009-04-07T19:22:00.000+01:002009-04-07T19:22:00.000+01:00Wow! It's going to be my guess that he is a new wr...Wow! It's going to be my guess that he is a new writer. When I first started writing and posting stories in Share Your Work on Absolute Write I had a similar attitude. Thank God I've learned the value of critiques and the time people take out of their schedules to read and comment on my work. I hope he learns one day.<BR/><BR/>But kudos to you for sticking true to your word and trying to help, even though he couldn't even follow simple directions. :)smsarberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13877196340060211056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-66894622679246327872009-04-07T13:05:00.000+01:002009-04-07T13:05:00.000+01:00Ah, I just link-chased to your comment at "Editori...Ah, I just link-chased to your comment at "Editorial Anonymous", and see that your did indeed talk to the police, fruitlessly.David Harmonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-41457491518121274612009-04-07T12:49:00.000+01:002009-04-07T12:49:00.000+01:00It was a YouWriteOn writer who caused me this prob...<I>It was a YouWriteOn writer who caused me this problem; and the last time I ventured onto the boards at YouWriteOn Ted deleted several of my posts there for posting "misleading information" about publishing.</I><BR/><BR/>Yikes! Sounds like a site to avoid. Also, I hope you reported that stalker-rejectee you described to the police!David Harmonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-32472764038886050312009-03-23T15:31:00.000+00:002009-03-23T15:31:00.000+00:00Penny Manning: if you want to improve your writing...Penny Manning: if you want to improve your writing and find out what informed professionals think of it, do what the rest of us have always done. Submit; wait; scream; LEARN. And then do it again and again and again. <BR/>And/or, as someone has said on here, PAY someone to look at your work. I may sound harsh here, but most of us don't have time to read other people's stuff for free, even if we didn't know we would be added to a Lynching List.<BR/><BR/>GeraldineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-60664246026345803142009-03-23T12:39:00.000+00:002009-03-23T12:39:00.000+00:00Jenny, I'm afraid that wouldn't work. It was a Yo...Jenny, I'm afraid that wouldn't work. <BR/><BR/>It was a YouWriteOn writer who caused me this problem; and the last time I ventured onto the boards at YouWriteOn Ted deleted several of my posts there for posting "misleading information" about publishing. <BR/><BR/>I think it's better for people who would like a decent criticism of their work to try Absolute Write or Write Words: there's a high proportion of professional, knowledgeable writers in both places, who can and do really help.Jane Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-90473536469917714132009-03-23T12:27:00.000+00:002009-03-23T12:27:00.000+00:00Sorry to hear of this horrid experience! I do hope...Sorry to hear of this horrid experience! I do hope it doesn't put you off reading other peoples' work for good.<BR/><BR/>Did occur to me that if you ever do decide to help someone out again, one way of sorting out the wheat from the chaff might be to suggest they try putting it on www.youwriteon.com and mention you'll probably take a look after it's been up there for a few weeks. That way there's a chance to see what the work is like and also tell whether the writer is prepared to actually take advice. <BR/><BR/>Please keep up your own good work. I love your blog!<BR/>Jenny<BR/>www.jabberwock.co.ukAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-36508433816071615902009-03-22T16:00:00.000+00:002009-03-22T16:00:00.000+00:00Emma Darwin wrote, "Writer's circles and the onlin...Emma Darwin wrote, <I>"Writer's circles and the online equivalent are free or cheap, and brilliant, if used selectively: you learn as much from critiquing other work as from other's critiquing of your own, which is where they're arguably actually better for your long-term writing than help which only goes in one direction."</I> <BR/><BR/>That's very true--and it feels far safer to criticise other people's work than to start on your own, which makes it a very useful way into criticism (apart from the poor person who has to take first turn at having his work reviewed!).Jane Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-75543789050513573132009-03-22T13:16:00.000+00:002009-03-22T13:16:00.000+00:00It does take help to get anywhere with your writin...It does take help to get anywhere with your writing, and we've all had help - paid and unpaid - to get where we are, and we're grateful for it. Arvon, the Arts Council, the AHRC... all do have grants and studentships, however competitive. Writer's circles and the online equivalent are free or cheap, and brilliant, if used selectively: you learn as much from critiquing other work as from other's critiquing of your own, which is where they're arguably actually better for your long-term writing than help which only goes in one direction. Plus one aspect of learning to be a writer is learning what to do with feedback, even from your very own publisher's editor: it comes down to accept, adapt or ignore, so anywhere where you get several opinions at once is priceless training in how to choose between those strategies.<BR/><BR/>But I had to accept when I was aspiring and looking for help, and it works the other way now I'm... well, I still aspire to all sorts of things, so, now I've got a bit further... that writers are freelance. Any time a freelance gives for free, is time which might otherwise be earning money. The writing life is so badly paid and so insecure that I often have to make a hard decision about which I do. I'm sure most writers have had people ask if they'd mind 'just reading their novel and telling me what you think,'. They're are genuinely surprised, when I tell them that I'd be happy to do so and it would cost £X. That £X is this week's foodbill, you see...<BR/><BR/>I know from experience how hard it is when you're aspiring and you're short of time and money, but it's not impossible, otherwise the only published authors would be trustafarians and kept women without children. To be really, really brutal, there's no trade in the world which doesn't ask you to pay in money or labour for your training: the quid pro quo is that at the end, you have a trade.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-50853658672530029472009-03-22T07:56:00.000+00:002009-03-22T07:56:00.000+00:00Penny Manning wrote, "I do realize you and other m...Penny Manning wrote, "I do realize you and other members of the writing world can't possibly help everyone, that you don't have the time, but with so many doors and gates being shut down tight...where are we newbies to go when we are hopeless and have no one to shake us out of our funk?"<BR/><BR/>Penny, this blog is my most visible attempt to help writers in your position: but after having had this latest experience with our matey whose reaction I described in this post, and many others like it from other similarly-positioned writers, I've just had enough of spending lots of my time critiquing a piece of work only to be sworn at. And I am not alone in that view.<BR/><BR/>However, there are still plenty of places you can go to have your work critiqued and to receive advice about your work: have you looked at Absolute Write? There's a link on the right, there: do have a look. Once you've spent some time there, if it doesn't suit, there are plenty of other similar sites out there.Jane Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-83550286702207903122009-03-22T04:50:00.000+00:002009-03-22T04:50:00.000+00:00It is sad that ungrateful writers--or would-be wri...It is sad that ungrateful writers--or would-be writers--act that way. It is very disheartening that seasoned writers, even regular readers, won't venture an opinion due to the behavior of those who can't accept criticism or follow directions.<BR/><BR/>I've asked a couple of TV show hosts and onliners to read a sample scene of my book, to no avail, generally, so that I could have some feedback, hopefully honest and even better, if well-informed. To me, the opinion of readers, whether they are Editors, Agents or everyday schmoes, is highly respected.<BR/><BR/>I do try to understand the rigors and pitfalls of giving critism or critique and it not being well-received by the seeker. Tough for them...they shouldn't ask. But what pisses me off, if that a nobody, newbie like me who has no one to go to for direction, encouragement or an honest damn opinion, is left to sink in an ever-growing cesspool of unrealized dreams. People don't want to take the time--or have the time--to help other writers out, and I think that is unfair. We all have to start somewhere, but if those, like yourself, who have the exposure and knowledge to offer an experienced opinion, refuse to reach out a hand to another writer (who very well may have serious potential), then that author will be lost. And it's not because their writing wasn't good enough, or that they failed to follow one rule or another, but they are lost because those who have made it have forgotten the difficulty of doing so, and have forgotten that God sometimes sends particular souls to you, hoping you will find it in your heart to help in some small way, at least.<BR/><BR/>I do realize you and other members of the writing world can't possibly help everyone, that you don't have the time, but with so many doors and gates being shut down tight...where are we newbies to go when we are hopeless and have no one to shake us out of our funk?<BR/><BR/>I say all this because I don't have family and friends who support me. It's been lonely and getting harder to even continue writing my book. I feel it will never be completed, that there will never be enough time for me to complete it. And I can't afford to go to conventions. I think the publishing world forgets those of us swimming in the lower socio-economic stratems, that not everyone has an arsenal of friends, family or money...so I have no choice but to ask others for help. And when people read my material, yes, I want people to venture an opinion--yay or nay--how else will I grow as a writer. I want my book to be a success. I want Oprah to announce my book as her next book club choice. I want my book adapted to the big screen or Masterpiece Theatre. But to get there I need help.<BR/><BR/>And, yes, it's hard to hear the truth even when it's invited, but how can I perfect my craft if I can't spot my errors and shortcomings. I love people who do offer an opinion, because it isn't an easy thing to do for most people. I also realize that I won't be a great author if I'm not willing to suck it up and keep plowing forward, thus I plant myself wearily at the computer every day until I can straighten out the kinks in my novel and remove those blasted detriments that get in the way of my story. Thank you for your article!<BR/><BR/>Penny AKA Sweet Little AngelPennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01932859321223254374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-41542559020520662702009-03-22T02:24:00.000+00:002009-03-22T02:24:00.000+00:00Good heavens. I mean, nobody enjoys being told all...Good heavens. <BR/><BR/>I mean, nobody <I>enjoys</I> being told all the ways in which their writing needs work. But ... well. There are persons of very little clue in every walk of life, and I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that the unpublished writer category has its share.<BR/><BR/>In more than a decade's work as a copy editor, I've found that the best writers (I work with learned journals, not fiction) are very often, though not always, the most receptive to suggestions, the most thorough and accurate in answering queries, and the likeliest to thank me for my trouble. I don't think this is a coincidence.wealhtheowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541258322766351588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-3663969123035312102009-03-20T17:59:00.000+00:002009-03-20T17:59:00.000+00:00Well, I won't be critting anything for a friend i...Well, I won't be critting anything for a friend in a hurry (with a handful of talented exceptions). It's so hard not to give offence when you don't say, "My what awesome writing." On the other hand, I'm not exactly the world's best at accepting criticism. It usually involves feelings of aghast self-doubt and weeping. Then a few days later, I knuckle down. <BR/><BR/>LG<BR/><BR/>Word verification mities: small, itchy patches behind the knees.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-50739575298245774832009-03-20T11:50:00.000+00:002009-03-20T11:50:00.000+00:00Did he say, "Be as harsh as you like, I can take i...Did he say, "Be as harsh as you like, I can take it"? Those are the ones to run away from. Fast!nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-65743171397341391872009-03-20T08:44:00.000+00:002009-03-20T08:44:00.000+00:00OMG - I hope the experience hasn't done serious da...OMG - I hope the experience hasn't done serious damage to your well of human kindness.<BR/><BR/>It would encourage me to take up contract killing as a career.DOThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00719312854612984929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-1783745126771094802009-03-19T22:42:00.000+00:002009-03-19T22:42:00.000+00:00BWAHAHAHAHA! Ahem...sorry, Jane. Didn't mean to la...BWAHAHAHAHA! Ahem...sorry, Jane. Didn't mean to laugh. Welcome to the Dump on an Editor Club. If you look in your gift bag, you'll see that you have a full bottle of tequila (for margaritas), chocolate, and a list of hit men. I believe you know what to do with all three items...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-12931701571646037642009-03-19T21:20:00.000+00:002009-03-19T21:20:00.000+00:00This sounds like one of Miss Snark's setting-her-h...This sounds like one of Miss Snark's setting-her-hair-on-fire moments. That person needs a clue by four. The redeeming feature of this guy, is that the more people there are like him, the easier it is for almost normal people like me to be liked by publishers. He sounds like a dementor - you definitely need chcolate (although there's never a time not to have chocolate).Melinda Szymanikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10202080805759494767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-72960904189015913892009-03-19T21:15:00.000+00:002009-03-19T21:15:00.000+00:00Ouch! I probably committed an unforgiveable sin wh...Ouch! I probably committed an unforgiveable sin when I sent a disc - but that would only take a moment to load - and I was not expecting the recipient to publish it anyway! (And I am much too timid to ask her what she actually thought of it.)catdownunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06959328192182156574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-22736728087424998542009-03-19T20:14:00.000+00:002009-03-19T20:14:00.000+00:00Marion Gropen wrote, "One thing that works? Making...Marion Gropen wrote, "One thing that works? Making them pay for the privilege of hearing your advice." <BR/><BR/>That's very wise advice, Marion--and I'm sure it works. Things which are paid-for are often treated far better than things we get for free. <BR/><BR/>Jane, I was sorely tempted to tell him to do that: but the more reasonable I became, the more outrageous his behaviour became and I'll admit to finding a certain smug pleasure there.<BR/><BR/>And Daniel Blythe: you know me far too well!Jane Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411253302725735470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-64447951772987308152009-03-19T20:02:00.000+00:002009-03-19T20:02:00.000+00:00Geez. What a moron. Jane, you have a lot more pati...Geez. What a moron. Jane, you have a lot more patience than I do. I would have written that guy an email response he would never forget. I'm afraid I wouldn't have been able to conjure up the restraint. Wise move on your part.. Salon Noir .https://www.blogger.com/profile/06700395759992388936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-63654250760765481682009-03-19T19:59:00.000+00:002009-03-19T19:59:00.000+00:00I think I might have taught this particular nobhea...I think I might have taught this particular nobhead. A very similar sounding type right down to the 'you don't get what I'm trying to do' whine was on a creative writing course I was teaching and every suggestion I made was met with aggression and rebuttal. Finally he dropped out of the course. I'm afraid I am not as mature and restrained as you Jane because when he too sent me a nasty email, detailing my failure to recognise his work for the genius it is, I told him to fuck off.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16329937118727831213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5519912440753252776.post-40348210688375673412009-03-19T17:50:00.000+00:002009-03-19T17:50:00.000+00:00How do these people support themselves?How do these people support themselves?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com